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Author Topic: Unpleasant Experience(s) with Medical Institutions (Mod's note on 1st post)  (Read 11144 times)

chester

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2011, 01:08:07 PM »
hi sis..
hindi ko alam kung lahat ng hospital requires DP.  but sa experience ko when my sister got sick (shes in Laguna) and hinala namin ay dengue, the hospital require us to give DP before admission.  and ganoon din sa husband ko (here in Manila), they also asked DP.  Kung walang DP hindi siya iaadmit.
 >:(

cottoncandy

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2011, 01:57:07 PM »
that's unfair diba. Kasi usually, EMERGENCY naman talaga kaya sinusugod sa hospital eh. Pano kung sarado na yung bank dahil madaling araw? what would they expect. Pero diba sabi nasa law natin na no DP should be required? Are private hospitals included in the provisions of these laws? Hay....

-joanamber-

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2011, 02:14:06 PM »
Sobrang unfair ang batas dito satin sis, pano nalang kung mahirap talaga yung family.? Papabayaan nalang na mamatay yung pasyente.? Pwede naman isettle yun after, di naman sila tatakbuhan. Grabe..
-joanamber-

cottoncandy

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2011, 03:52:38 PM »
That's exactly my point sis. 8pm na natransfer yung nephew ko sa LPDH. They are expecting yata na everyday, meron ang mga tao na dala dalang 20k sa wallet. Sige fine, kailangan mag DP, pero is there such thing as closed account? LPDH will really not provide any medicines or anything kapag umabot na yung bill nyo sa certain amount unless pondohan ulit. Diba? Sa totoo lang, okay lang naman magbayad ng malaki basta ba worth it eh. Pero sa LPDH?? Hay nako talaga. Profit maximization sila. Mag sisingil sila eh yung facilities nila hindi okay. San ka nakakita ng ICU na ang mga nursed kumakain at nag chichikahan? San hospital ang may ICU na puwede pumasok ang visitors ng walang lab gown, slippers or kahit mask man lang diba? Sino kasi owner ng hospital na yun diba? Alam na...

chester

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2011, 03:58:37 PM »
yap sis. hindi magandang patakaran.   >:(
they have no heart.  dumating kami husband ko hospital ng past 10pm. naghanap pa ako ng atm para lang makapagwithdraw at mabayaran DP.  :'(
hirap talaga Pilipinas, almost lahat pera muna bago service.

cottoncandy

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2011, 04:27:50 PM »
I get so frustrated kapag naaalala ko yung experience ng nephew ko sa hospital na yun. Eto pa,  we heard one from the accounting office na kinakausap yung isang relative ng patient for discharge kaya lang they can't pay in full. So nag promisory note pero kailangan ng collateral na mas malaki dapat yung value kesa dun sa balance. OA talaga ng hospital na yun.  >:( kagalit. gusto ko sila ipa tulfo eh kasi kung mag dedemanda, for sure talo na agad kasi influential yung family ng owner ng LPDH.

doc ina

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2011, 04:42:22 PM »
hello moms!

DISCLAIMER:  I am NOT a doctor from las pinas.  I am also NOT a doctor from LPDH.

If I may give some clarification on some issues before it goes out of hand.  I can see that there are already violent reactions about this incident.

First of all, let us address the child who got sick.  My sincere condolences to the family. 

In my opinion, some of the issues here are mostly hospital policies.  These are different between government and private hospitals.

>     Yes, downpayment is required.  Even if you go to other private hospitals in any city in any province, a downpayment is required.  The NO DP policy only applies to government hospitals.

>    If it is an emergency case, yes the patient may be admitted even without DP for the first 24 hours (or lesser in some hospitals) and must be paid after 24 hours.  This is to give way for the banks to open the next day.  20 thousand is a reasonable amount because 20 K is the highest amount you can withdraw from any ATM at any time, even midnight.

>     Becuase the child was TRANSFERRED to LPDH, and is not and emergency case in THAT hospital, therefore a DP was asked of you.  If you noticed, the first hospital where the child was brought (the one nearest your home) they did not ask for DP and was advised admission also in the ICU.  No DP was asked because the EMERGENCY occurred in THAT hospital.  These are technicalities, and yes, there is a difference whether the hospital is the one who attended the emergency or is the transfer hospital.

>     It may be offensive to most patients/relatives to ask for DP.  However, to understand the situation, let's look at it from the hospital's standpoint:

     One patient admitted at the ICU will accumulate around a minimim of 10,000 to 15,000 pesos to around 50,000 pesos in big hospitals  worth of hospital bills, which may include the room rate, medications, procedures, labs, and monitors.  Each additional machine attached is another cost.  So, if only one patient is addmitted in the ICU for 10 days worth 15,000 per day, and did not pay and DP and did not pay the balance, this will amount to 150,000 and will end up as a LOSS to the hospital.  Imagine this happening to 10 patients in 1 day.  that is already 1.5 million pesos in losses because of the refusal to pay DP and to pay the balance. 
     Of course, the usual reaction will be, "sus, mayaman naman ang mga ospital".  I beg to disagree.  Usually, a big hospital will have a private and a charity area.  (ex: St Lukes, UST, PGH)  All of the earnings in the private hospital is given directly to the charity hospital.  And this is still not enough.  Just look at PGH.  Do you think their private hospital can pay for ALL of the patients in their charity hospital? Of course not.  That is why PGH looks like that.  That is why all charity hospitals look like that.  No matter how high the expenses are in the private hospitals, it is still not enough to cover the expenses of the charity hospital.

and yes, it ALWAYS happens na "tinatakbuhan" ng patient ang hospital kung wala silang pang bayad.  I have had 3 patients,owing 1.5 million pesos each.  Can't find them. still alive and well with their families.  gone. 

So what?  " ano naman ang paki-alam ko doon?"

of course if you look at it only from 1 point of view, it would not mean anything of significance.  But take everything into consideration.  its' called SOCIAL CONSCIENCE.  it's not that they don't have heart.  it's because they do and think of EVERYONE at stake, not just one person.

Now let's look at it from the pediatrician's standpoint:

With regards to the pedia who was in charge of your baby, THAT is a common trait that almost all young Filipino doctors have.  Willingness to give one's self for the patient.  A GUARANTOR does not simply mean the one who signs the admission papers.  A GUARANTOR means she GUARANTEES the hospital the SHE will pay for ALL the medical bills if the patient is not able to.  Imagine if one patient did not pay the DP and the balance all amounting to 1.5 million pesos.  Let's just say "saang kangkungan pupulot ng 1.5 million pesos ang isang new pedia resident who earns only 8,000 per month? (10,000 if bigger hospital).  Even if she works in the hospital for 20 years, hindi pa rin niya mababayaran ang utang ng isang pamilya na yon."  How many GUARANTEE NOTES does she sign per day?  Please consider that.  you are very lucky to have found a doctor who will sign your guarantee note.

The bottom line here is this:  In order to understand the entire situation, we must first look at other points of view.  Of course it looks bad from your end, but it also looks worse from the other side.  If there is an understanding between the two sides, maybe the feelings are not of resentment and hate, but of understanding and acceptance.

thank you. 

God bless!

Doc Ina

ps.  condolences again, mommy cottoncandy to you and your family.



cottoncandy

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2011, 05:24:19 PM »
Hi doc ina. My opinions might be because of the frustrations. Again, these are personal views / questions that need enlightenment/clarifications. I appreciate that you took time to address some of the issues.

All of the issues were monetary in nature. I know that all of these could be solved just as long as hospital policies are revised that will not only benefit the hospital itself but the patients as well. I understand that it is business. They have to gain profit because they are private entities. But, I hope that they realize the true essence of their missions and visions. And that is to ensure the safety of their patients. Nababayaran ang utang pero ang buhay, hindi.

doc ina, i need your opinion about this. The pedia's initial findings for the seizure were sepsis and meningitis. There were already a lot of medications injected to my nephew and later did she found out that she wan't able to see one lab test that made and broke everything considering that ALL lab tests where given to her ahead of time? What can you say about the reason given to us that my nephew's pneumonia worsen because of the virus inside the ICU? Any thoughts on nurses who eats inside the ICU and how visitors can come and go without wearing lab gowns, slippers and masks? Why was an autopsy needed to determine the real cause of death? Why were the doctors not sure about it? I guess this is were my frustrations are all coming from. I hope you could enlighten me. TIA

chester

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2011, 05:44:40 PM »
hi doc ina!
yah. napapalayo sa topic. oo,  madaming patient din na tumatakbo sa obligasyon nila.
but then, in my case, punta kami ng past 10pm. he was put to er. and after that they would not like to admit my husband if walang DP of 10k.  10k?  small amount of money.  He had high fever and nanghihina.  i had the money in my atm. cant swipe the debit/credit card kasi wala na rin silang cashier.  sana some hospital should atleast give the patient atleast 24hrs to produce the DP for consideration.  or even umaga na.
sad, but it happened to me.  :(


toughmom

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2011, 06:21:40 AM »
SP Forum policy on posting about negative feedback involving establishments states:

Feedbacks, positive or negative is allowed in this forum. Through feedbacks, the members of the community benefit from the information shared by co-members. To avoid crossing the line, please observe the following when posting:


-take the complain with the concerned person or establishment as the first action. This should be mentioned on your post. Please do not use this site as a complain center or to gather support against a person or company. The community is not interested on the long and complete report which should be forwarded to the person concerned. Make your post interesting enough for the readers and not to vent out personal frustrations.

-be objective, referring and focusing to one's experience instead of suggesting that it is an over-all standard.
   Example: " The service rendered to us was not what we have expected and it was below standard. I find their service poor."
   instead of: "This (name of company) has the worst service."


Mention the action of the establishment or the governing public agency. This is to give balance to your story and to show that you indeed took the matter to their office already.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 06:23:27 AM by toughmom »
Join existing topics for common concerns and use the "Seach feature" before starting a new topic. Keep your signatures small:100 pixels max.height  Refrain from using textspeaks (shortened SMS words). Quote only a portion of the message. Be cautious in sharing your personal infos

doc ina

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2011, 11:53:55 AM »
SP Forum policy on posting about negative feedback involving establishments states:

Feedbacks, positive or negative is allowed in this forum. Through feedbacks, the members of the community benefit from the information shared by co-members. To avoid crossing the line, please observe the following when posting:


-take the complain with the concerned person or establishment as the first action. This should be mentioned on your post. Please do not use this site as a complain center or to gather support against a person or company. The community is not interested on the long and complete report which should be forwarded to the person concerned. Make your post interesting enough for the readers and not to vent out personal frustrations.

-be objective, referring and focusing to one's experience instead of suggesting that it is an over-all standard.
   Example: " The service rendered to us was not what we have expected and it was below standard. I find their service poor."
   instead of: "This (name of company) has the worst service."


Mention the action of the establishment or the governing public agency. This is to give balance to your story and to show that you indeed took the matter to their office already.

Hello moms!

thank you for this information sis. I agree, even if we are ranting, we must still be objective.

@ mommy chester: yes, some hospitals give a 24-hour period for those who can not deposit right away.  this must be paid by the end of 24 hours.  yes 10K is actually a small amount compared to some private hospitals that will require 50K or even 100K for ICU cases.

@ mommy cottoncandy:

 
Nababayaran ang utang pero ang buhay, hindi.

I agree.  in any cse, hospital policies are hospital policies.  the doctors do not have any say in hospital policies.  their concern is simply the well being of their patients.

doc ina, i need your opinion about this. The pedia's initial findings for the seizure were sepsis and meningitis. There were already a lot of medications injected to my nephew and later did she found out that she wan't able to see one lab test that made and broke everything considering that ALL lab tests where given to her ahead of time? What can you say about the reason given to us that my nephew's pneumonia worsen because of the virus inside the ICU? Any thoughts on nurses who eats inside the ICU and how visitors can come and go without wearing lab gowns, slippers and masks? Why was an autopsy needed to determine the real cause of death? Why were the doctors not sure about it? I guess this is were my frustrations are all coming from. I hope you could enlighten me. TIA

I might misunderstand your question, kindly clarify:  There were already a lot of medications injected to my nephew and later did she found out that she wan't able to see one lab test that made and broke everything considering that ALL lab tests where given to her ahead of time?

so.. there was no lab test done? or the lab results were not relayed to the doctor? or the doctor did not care what the results were?

in any case, upon history and physical examination, a doctor will make a working diagnosis, which will be the basis of all labs and medications upon admission.  Depending on daily physical examination and upon the arrival of lab results, the working diagnosis may change (new diagnosis or additional diagnosis).  This does not mean that the doctor is wrong. 

for example: cough.  there are a lot of things that can cause cough, and the doctor will make  a working diagnosis based on the history and physical examination.  for example the working diagnosis is primary complex.  let's say an xray was done.  this will confirm the working diagnosis.  for example the xray showed bot PC and pneumonia. this does not necessarily mean the doctor was wrong.  It just means that there could be additional symptoms that were not evident upon first examination, and only appeared on the second or third examination.

medications are given already upon admission, especially if it is a critical or life-and-death situation.  we cannot wait for the lab results before we give any medication because some procedures take a long time (ex: a cbc will take about 1 hour, while a culture will take 5-7 days).  If we wait, it might be too late. 

What can you say about the reason given to us that my nephew's pneumonia worsen because of the virus inside the ICU?


I agree this is possible.  Any person who gets sick automatically will have their immune systems down.  If the person is in the ICU, that means the disease is really life-threatening and therefore, the body may not be able to fight off everything.  So the body's immune systems are down.  Tubes are inserted into the body, which are needed to sustain life.  All these tubes can be possible sources of infection., which again, can lower the immune system further.  At this stage, anything can lower the immune system even further.  (the doctor has to weigh the benefit vs the harm of these invasive procedures.  Example, yes, the tube that goes into the lungs is a possible source of infection.  Does the patient need it? yes.  Will the patient die earlier if the tube was not inserted? yes.  that makes the tube more beneficial than harmful) Even just one small booger (kulangot) or just one minute exposing the patient to someone with colds, or simply not washing the hands before touching the patient.  All things considered, anything and everything could have caused the pneumonia to worsen. 

Any thoughts on nurses who eats inside the ICU

there should be hospital policies regarding staff meals and break schedules. Usually, there is a pantry for eating and for breaks.  However, some hospitals are not able to provide these facilities to their staff.

In defense of the nurses:  they are people too.  I don't know how long they have been on duty.  I don't know if they are allowed breaks between their shifts.  Usually, doctors and nurses DO NOT have breaks.  especially the young residents (but that's a different story).  Usually, the shifts are either 8 or 12 hours straight.  Eating and going to the bathroom are done only when you can steal some time from what you are tasked to do.  Breaks are not scheduled every 3 hours or whatever, like in offices.  Breaks do not last as long as 15 minutes.  Only 1 minute or less if you have to pee and wash your hands, and 5 minutes or less (or while walking) for eating.

Residents (the young doctors who do not get paid) have it even worse.   They are on a 24 to 48 hour duty. No breaks.  Eat whenever you can, and sleep whenever your patients are sleeping.  No pay.  this is a story too long and too close to my heart.  will reserve my tears for another post. (hehe)

how visitors can come and go without wearing lab gowns, slippers and masks?

hospitals are not all the same.  some will require strict sterile conditions before entering the ICU, in the premise that they want to prevent further infection.  Some hospitals do not require such strict procedures, especially for adult ICU because the patient has been from the outside world, and whatever bug is in him is brought from the outside. 

Why was an autopsy needed to determine the real cause of death? Why were the doctors not sure about it?

There may be many indications for an autopsy.  It should not be regarded as a gruesome or mortifying act.  it is simply a medical procedure done on a dead body.  Very much like operating on a live person.  Unlike in movies where an autopsy seems like the body is being butchered to a million pieces.  No.  An autopsy is very much like a scene in an operating room.  Doctors are in sterile gown with cap and mask, taking care of the body as if it were a live patient. 

Whatever the reason for having an autopsy done, the main goal is to identify the cause of death.  As mentioned earlier, doctors initially make a working diagnosis.  After giving all the medications and doing all the procedures necessary to save the life, and the patient still succumbs to death, the final test/procedure that can be done to identify the final diagnosis is only an autopsy.  There is no other procedure that can replace that. 

I do not know what the doctor's opinion of the case was. They may have known the diagnosis and simply want to confirm the diagnosis.  Or they may have not known it all together.  Whatever the reason was, DOCTORS ARE NOT GODS.  They are just human beings who do not have the power to see the inside of a human body nor to heal by themselves.  They are simply hands of God who try in all their best to apply everything they have learned in medicine in order to save the life of any and all the patients they see. 

I understand your frustrations, mommy cotton candy.  Doctors try with all their might to help their patients.  No doctor will want any harm. 

I agree with mommy toughmom.  If this really bothers you, it would be best to take it up with the hospital administration. 

If you have any more questions, I will be glad to answer them.

God bless!

Doc Ina

cottoncandy

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2011, 02:17:16 PM »
hi doc ina. Thank for your response and I truly understand your point of views. Yes, these concerns were already raised to the hospital but what can we expect? I just want to reiterate once again that I am writing in this forum to share my frustrations and not discourage anyone from patronizing the hospital.

I understand that your views are in defense of the medical profession/ industry. I would do the same thing if I was a medical practitioner. We might not be as knowledgeable as doctors when it comes to assessing the condition of patients but we know if something is not right. We may not be the owners of hospitals to understand how important profits are. We are just ordinary citizens who unfortunately at one point could not do anything but follow hospital policies because we would prioritize the lives of our loved ones than make issues/ concerns such like these a big deal. We are left with no choice. We have to play by the rules of the game.  Maybe, just maybe, we would be better understood if they were on the same boat.

Again, to doc ina and the moderators, thank you. Thank you for letting us especially me use SP forum as a venue to release our frustrations, views and opinions in topics like this. In one way or another, I feel my burdens are lighter.

Mommyjazz

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2011, 02:38:16 PM »
@cottoncandy, condolence po. Other than the Hospital Admin, maybe you can take it up with DOH or governing office that handles hospital policies if you think your complain was not treated fair?
To doc ina, I just wonder what will become of SP Forum if you weren't on board. ;)

doc ina

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2011, 05:00:53 PM »
thank you mommy jazz, you are too kind. :)

most of the time, only one aspect of the doctor is seen.  I am glad that I can share my point of view too, as a person, not just as a doctor.

@ mommy cotton candy:  I am sure your nephew is an angel now.  all children are beautiful and all of them are in the arms of God.  I understand your sentiments too. I know how it feels to be a patient too. :)

God bless everyone!

Doc Ina

riddermark

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Re: Terrible experience in Las Pinas Doctors Hospital
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2011, 05:39:55 PM »
i applaud both doc ina and cotton candy on giving level-headed POVs.

my condolences too on your family, cotton candy.

my take on the nurses eating inside or people not wearing gowns, masks, etc. i really hope all hospitals will secure their patients most esp those inside the ICU. others may not have pantries, as what doc ina said, but as much as possible i hope they wont do these things inside and be cautious.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 05:56:56 PM by riddermark »
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